This post is to explore possibilites around the development of OFN Portugal - particularly in relation to the deployment of the OFN platform in Portugal…
Currently there are several Portuguesse enterprises trading on the OFN deploynet run by Katuma (who are based in Barcelona). Katuma are happy for all enterprises on the Iberian peninsular to use this deploymnet.
However Katuma is providing this service on an almost voluntary basis with no external funding and a small income from the contributions of some of the OFN users. @Eugeni is the instance manager of OFN Katuma and has given permission for @filipefurtado to have superadmin access to the instance so that we can set up an OFN Group for the Portuguese enterprises. We hope to have this access soon.
We also would like details of the Katuma pricing structure so that new Portuguese users know what the financial committment will be.
Any offers of support to the Katuma team would be much appreciated.
Great to hear, Nick; thanks for the update. I am as you know interested- not only for myself as both consumer and producer, but also on behalf of our local ProSumer coop and its “Colmeia” (i.e. food hub) project -and will do whatever i can to support this initiative, including fair share of whatever hosting fees might be involved.
One question tho: about this openfoodnetwork.pt domain, whose owner is prepared to lend use of domain to this worthy cause, i think you said: can you arrange it so the domain gets redirected to this new OFN instance as soon as it is ready for use? Even if it’s just a “Stay Tuned!” sort of landing page, that would be better than having the domain point to nothing (as it does now), IMHO. ?
Further to my last post, about hosting fees: i gather from this pricing page on Katuma site that- besides the €100 share capital contribution (refundable in the end) -the monthly hosting fees would be assessed as follows:
- €2 /mo. on transactions of <€200 /mo.
- €15 /mo. on tx between €200-500 /mo.
- €30 /mo. on tx between €500-1000 /mo.
- €50 /mo. on tx of >€1000 /mo, plus 1% of invoiced total.
While i am no position to comment as to reasonability of these fees (absent more research into market for hosting services), i must say that this top-tier rate (which threshold we should hit very soon) would be a significant expense for our little Co-Op to bear, especially when we consider the cost of initial software customisation to our purposes (e.g. data integration with our IRS-PT mandated invoicing system, for one thing).
So, this is just to ask: Are there other sources of funding to consider? There was some chatter on the #portugal channel of Slack : OFN about possibility of funding from some EU agency, IIRC; @ferrazfil , can you say any more about this, or any other such possibilities?
Yes Oikos have offered us that domain. @walt would you be willing to set up a holding page on that domain if I can get them to transfer it to you on behalf of OFN PT?
We can negotiate with Katuma on contribution levels
Yes @NickWeir : i can set up a holding page, just as soon as we get clarity as to whether this project is a go or not.
Am still wondering though: in name of what entity? There is no body here empowered to represent the country, as of yet. Not to nitpick, but not to assume too much, i must ask: Would Oikos be wiling to transfer control of domain to our Cooperativa da Terra (whose scope is really just 4 municipalities in SW Portugal, NB)? Who needs to be a party to this decision?
@walt here is my view on the different aspects you raise:
- I agree with Nick that contributions to Katuma, would probably be a matter of negotiating. I am sure moreover at the trial/launching stage this would be a reasonable request (my instinct says they would be open to it).
- Having said that, and still in respect to contributions, it needs to be understood that Katuma (similarly to other instances) are providing a service that needs attention every day, and there is a need to resource the various activities related to that service properly in some way. It cannot be expected that this level of work can be resourced by volunteer time on a regular basis, (despite volunteers being a pilar holding OFN and having it moving forward).
- So there needs to be a middle ground between helping a national instance launch and making sure appropriate contributions are being directed to the maintenance of the platform.
- Cannot ensure how Oikos would react, but my feeling would be they just want someone to make use of the tool, hence no worries if this would be done by a particular cooperative in the south of the country.
- in respect to the european funding, I have been working since beginning of the Summer last year to include different european OFN instances in proposals, and trying as much as possible to include activities around launching instances (Portugal being one of them). But this needs to be seen realistically:
- in none of these proposals is there an OFN coordinator (meaning our work is respected but not core to the proposal);
- there is a process for this type of funding → the deadline for the proposals I am working now will be mid February, then they will have to be evaluated by the commission which will means there will only be answer around Summer time, and funds only starting to arrive around Autumn/Winter 2022 IF (and this is a big “if”) the proposals are successful.
So I do think this is a resource you will be able to tap into, and I will make sure to let you know when that happens but it will not be any time soon unfortunately.
However I do have a question: have you taken a look at National funding sources in Portugal? Most other instances rely initially on smaller funding programs to launch. Is there nothing that you (Colmeia) can apply for? (for eg.: OFN UK have been quite successful applying to the National lottery; Ireland have applied to programs related programs of Social Entrepreneurship; I believe Switzerland as well; France have been the most successful and recently have received funding from a municipality).
Thanks @ferrazfil for responding so helpfully.
There is need of a cost/benefit analysis of these two options- i.e. Katuma hosting vs dedicated server for OFN:PT -and this is going to take some time. Meanwhile: our Superadmin @filipefurtado has undertaken to set up a Group for Portugal on the Katuma server, and i’ve already begun to explore capabilities on the demo account i have been granted (strictly dummy transactions at this point, until we figure out how PT tax codes can be addressed).
To your question about exploring funding sources at National level: have not looked into it myself, but of course that would be a sensible approach, for anyone w/ the requisite skills (when it comes to negotiating the ropes of PT bureaucracy, i am really the wrong tool for the job )… But if there’s anybody listening who is that way inclined, or knows of specific sources at National level to investigate, by all means please advise!
Thanks for starting off the discussion @NickWeir @ferrazfil @walt .
In the meantime, the OFN Portugal group is up, you can visit it here:
There’s plenty of room for customization (pics, address, description, and contact people), but for now the purpose was rather to set it up, so OFN-PT has a landing page.
I’ve made no choices and simply added all enterprises and producers on Portuguese territory. There are quite a few of them but surely not all are active.
Thanks @filipefurtado for the group - this looks great already
If nobody @here has any ojections I will
- check out this decision with #global-community and # ofn-g-affiliates on Slack and if nobody there has any objections then
- ask Oikos to transfer the .PT domain to Cooperativa da Terra c/o Walt
w00t! Thanks @filipefurtado for making it happen.
Works for me @NickWeir ; i can serve as tech contact for now, but ricardoneves13 (President of our Co-Op) should probably be the admin (i.e. having power to change tech contact) -thanks!
I have just posted this in the private ofn-g-affiliates Slack channel. Assuming nobody ojects then I will contact Oikos next week
Nick Weir (UK/global gardener) 5:10 PM
OFN Portugal is moving forward.The Katuma team have given Filipe superadmin access and he has set up this group of Portuguese enterprises.
We plan to set up this group page as the landing page for openfoodnetwork.pt which was originally set up by Oikos when they were planning to white label OFN for Portugal. They have agreed to transfer this domain once we have an organisation to transfer it to.We would like to propose that we ask Oikos to transfer the domain to Cooperativa da Terra under the direction of Ricardo Neves and Walt Ludwick who are keen to use OFN and want to help promote OFN in Portugal. In the long term we plan to set up a separate not-for-profit but for now this feels like a good first step.
If nobody has any objections we will ask Walt or Ricardo to sign the pledge as a temporary affiliate
If anyone has any questions about this or is concerned about this plan please let us know by Friday 28th Jan otherwise I will approach Oikos and ask them to make the transfer
Hey @NickWeir : I just did a nic.pt lookup, and found out that the domain had no owner -not Oikos, not anybody- so i just went to the domain registrar we like to use (dominios.pt) and put a hold on this domain, just to avoid some domain squatter coming in and complicating things. Have talked to Ricardo, and he agrees we can proceed as per your advice on this… So we just need that pledge for Ricardo to sign, and then we’ll do the rest. OK?
Great news. Thanks @walt
Also we have had a discussion within OFN global and everyone is happy for Cooperativa da Terra to take on the domain
So yes please ask Ricardo to sign here
You, Ricardo and anyone else are also welcome to come and meet others from the global community at our catch up next Tuesday evening. I will send you a calendar invitation
Looking forward very much to working with you
Good to hear, @NickWeir. I’ll pass the word -and the doc for signature- to Ricardo.
Have accepted invite to OFN Global meeting- thanks! -and i look forward to the conversation w/ y’all then.
Am also looking forward to receiving @filipefurtado down here on the farm some time in 1st half of February, he says, so we can have a little “hackathon” to give our OFN:PT presence a jump-start.
Any chance of you maybe joining up w/ us for this?
Hi @walt - this all sounds good. I would be happy to join you online. I am sorry that I wont be able to come out to Portugal again in the near future as my wife has serious health issues that I am supporting.
Sorry to hear this, @NickWeir … But if it’s possible for you to be with us via online presence, we’ll sure appreciate it. I just heard from @filipefurtado that he’ll be in our neighbourhood Feb 5-7, so we are working to co-ordinate a session for this coming Sunday pm or Monday am, FYI; details soon to follow!
thanks @walt I will join if I can
Concerning the national funding sources, I would just like to share with you that there are some very good opportunities currently open that could be used for something like this, namely the Plano de Recuperação e Resiliência in the agriculture domain which has a terrible website but very good opportunities for those who have time and know-how to prepare applications. You can check them out at the end of this page: Rede Rural Nacional - Bolsa Iniciativas PRR
For professional reasons it’s completely beyond my capacity right now to participate in discussions at this level but I just wanted to share that I’ve read through this thread and I am happy that things seem to finally be going ahead with OFN PT.